Editor- Please send us a detailed and well-referenced article on how and why the author has erred we will gladly publish it on SikhSpectrum.com. By doing so not only will the readers know where the author has erred, it will also give Dr. Zaidi an opportunity to clarify any concerns that you might have. Unless you can clearly explain and point to her why you disagree with the contents of her article there is no way for her to respond to you in an attempt to clarify her views on devadasis. We hope that you will send us a well-written article soon and we promise to publish it on our website for everyone to read.
You have also forwarded us the reply that Dr. Zaidi sent you (posted below) in which she has pointed out her intentions to speak for all women who are victims of oppression through an article that was published in SikhSpectrum. Had you read that article you would have noticed that she spoke for all young Muslim women who are sold to rich Saudi men and spend a lifetime working as servants.
Again, we look forward to your article on the devadasi tradition.
Dr. Zaidi's response
This author has talked about plight of all women, of all religions (Hindu,
Muslim, Christian, and Jew) in India (Hydrabad, Lucknow, Delhi, Karnataka and
Tamilnadu) and all over the world (Germany, Japan, Egypt and Greece) and in
all ages (ancient to modern times). Please read the article: ‘Artocities on
Women through the Ages’ by the same author, it will answer your question:
http://www.sikhspectrum.com/022006/women.htm
_._._._._
Dear Editor,
I will only say to you that "those who live in glass houses, don't
throw stones on others" meaning look in the mirror. How does Islam
treat its women?
Editor- We were forwarded this feedback on Dr. Zaidi's article which appears to be an ongoing discussion on a different website. We are only publishing that message which concerns the topic of devadasies. We request everyone who wishes to discuss the issue of Devdasis in India to please stay focused on this topic. Your cooperation will be greatly appreciated. As stated earlier we will gladly publish any well-referenced article that explains how the author has erred.
_._._._._
Dr. Madhukar, Namaste
I share your view that Western Civilization is extremely flawed. However, do not give the impression that DEVADAASI system is worthy of being defended. Devadaasi is still practiced in India today, though minimally. It is immoral. No sane Hindu today would approve of his daughter being a devadaasi.
I, for a fraction of second, did not defend such an abhorrent system practiced by human beings any where in the world. I do condemn it, If it is still practiced any where in India. I do not know the "Reasons and causes" behind such a system.
In UK, since I am here I have noticed that the Girls as young as 11-12 years are being brought from East European countries, on the pretext of providing employment and are forced in to prostitution against their will. Scotland Yard had broke open such a mafia gangs and some of the girls were reunited with their parents. Those who support such a system are worse than Devadasi system today (If practiced today) . Does so called academics or intellectual take notice of such an inhuman practice in the Developed world and write about it? Do you mean to say that the Western Civilised society approve of such system, these system are bound to prop-up from time to time, BUT do you think it has the sanction by the Civilized Christians and HINDUS. One needs to think . I am not sure if you know about the "Pedophiliac Christian Priests" all over Western World, however the True Christians do not support such a system, the reasons must be searched in social and cultural make up and not blamed on the Religion or Dharma.
My point is so called Secularist, Christian Missionaries and Anti- India Islamist just want to denigrate HINDUISM by repeating such issues like, Sati, Devadasi, Johar Castesim, Dalits and many more issues from time to time. This is all because India is progressing, let us work to build stronger India.
Please do not think I am supporting this system because I am Hindu. I also shun the Caste System being promoted by the present Government by the back door as Reservation policy.
This article is about exploitation of women and not about religion. Women are exploited everywhere in the world, irrespective of the religion, community, or country they belong to. They have been exploited through ages and will be exploited in future too. Men have and will always find ways of justifying their exploitation, humiliation, degradation, and discrimination of women: Sometimes by giving religious sanctions, sometimes under the garb of age-old customs practiced through centuries, some times under the name of superstitious beliefs and blind faith, sometimes in the name of family honour. This is a topical case, and religious sanction is given by a particular religion, in other cases it can be by another religion, in yet another case it can be due to blind faith and/or superstition. No religion as such professes exploitation of women, it is the wrong interpretation of religion that is used to lure and mislead the simple-minded illiterate masses, and this happens and has happened in all religions, in all sections of society and in every country of the world.
The author writes about exploitation of women, children and other downtrodden sections of society- wherever injustice is done- in the name of religion (whatever may be the religion), in the name of superstition, in the name of honour - and she speaks against it from a humanistic angle, as a human being; to which section of society the author belongs is immaterial here.
All figures in the article are well documented and nothing here is fictitious. The references given at the end of the article, can be checked.
The article, Devdasi System in India by Dr. Zoya Zaidi, is an informative and a well-documented article based on facts. This research paper is worthy of praise. It should be read with an open and broad mind by all.
Listen, we are all, by and large, proud of Vaidik Sanaatan Dharma, but there are certain parts of our Hindu Past that point to degenerate times in India. The Devadaasi system is one of those pointers. The Call of these times is to recognize such pointers and educate our people so that we may overcome our own flaws. I encourage all on this forum to read Chapter 11 of Rishi Dayananda's Satyarth Prakaash. Read with an open mind.
Namaste.
- Dr. Satish Prakash
Maharshi Dayananda Gurukula, NYC
If you have pleasure in repeating past about Devadasi no one can stop you. Do not put blinkers and read only "read Chapter 11 of Rishi Dayananda's Satyarth Prakaash" there are others who have different prospect on this issue. If certain individuals have abused the system it does not mean there is a sanction by the Dharma. If that is so then "Christian pedophile priests" must have sanction by Christianity. Be real, read some other books on this issue by Anand Kumarswamy; it will open up your views.
Zoya Zaidi’s way of expression proves that she wants to strengthen her
interpretation, which she had already predetermined to. This is the usual
type of western, Christian, communist and muslim research methodology –
. set result,
. work on it,
. suppress the uncomfortable sources or evidences that are against the hypothesis,
. blow up the insignificants and
. arrive at the result
We know in early 50s to 90s, “history” was taken only by the students who could not get any group / branch of his choice. Except some committed and conscious teachers, lecturers and professors, all others used to come and talk stories with the heavy dosage of their personal prejudices. With the rise of job-oriented curriculum, they understood the reality of loosing their career. So they turned to mixing up with all other subjects, colluding with politicians, providing materials to race, caste, sectarian, subversive, anti-national and terrorist groups, and create confusion in print and electronic media.
Here also, only the “English knowing / speaking” could excel and become ideologues of such vested groups. They floated “History Congress”, “World Archaeology”, “South East Asian Studies” and such other for getting funds from such vested groups, conduct conferences and get due publicity in the media. Whereas, there have been many genuine, unbiased and industrious researchers of history and their papers are ignored or suppressed. And there have been publishers with “big-big names” of international stature to publish only papers / theses of such ideologue-writers. Thus, even the proceedings of the Conferences, seminars and workshops, many times getting funds from Government, follow the same methodology of promoting ideologues and
demagogues.
As the study of “history” has become non-lucrative in the context of
money-making IT, they come out with “women studies”, “marginalized
people studies”, study of “dalits”, “oppressed and suppressed”,
“human-rights”, “gender justice”, “empowerment of…..”, etc. And it becomes easy for “researchers” to take up these topics, collect data here and there, make “field-studies” and submit thesis to get a Ph.D. {Here, IT is cited for illustrative purpose only}.
Even in this highly civilized, westernized, modernized and elitist
society, polity and nation, we have to serve our “bosses” according our
hierarchical status. In IT industry, now many cases of sexual harassment, exploitation, and high-class and hi-tech prostitution is coming out. The IT buddies openly accept that wine and sex are not sin. And a stage has come that at least some percentage of Indian women are ready to have sex before marriage without any social stigma, as “chastity” does not make much difference.
So naturally, Indian print and electronic media come out with such stories, “STAR” group-like channels broadcast such tempting, soliciting and sensual debates with forceful conclusions thrusted on the viewers. Of course, the TV-serials are imbibed with such extra-marital
relationships, a woman having more husbands or paramours and vice versa, glorifying and justifying. So kissing in public, drinking and dancing on high-ways, eloping with any girl or boy etc., are not at all unsocial, anti-societal or wrong act. But, coming to “temple-prostitution”, they talk about all sorts of rights, law and justice citing Acts and Rules drawing attention to the Constitution and so on!
Generalization of single or exceptional case and applying it to whole
society is the point made out by Zoya Zaidi. She has simply compiled the material available already and presented with attractive photos. As
pointed out the “low-caste” officers (both female and male) of any modern industry or management corporate have to work under and for “high-caste” officers. For increment, better posting or transfer, perks, foreign travel, commission etc., they have to “adjust” with them. This type of “highly institutionalized” corporate prostitution is not talked about, though it has been a fact and slowly affecting Indian society at different levels. The “digital divide” plays more havoc in Indian society, but, Indians may not open mouth or forget as long as they get money from their daughters and sons or wives and husbands.
Thus, “Devadasi” system is there everywhere. It is there among the “officers of ranks and stripes”, “politicians”, “diplomats and ambassadors”. Only the thing is Zoya like zealots try to zap, zip her hypothesis unzipping other things of her zones and zoom the “chosen”.
In 2004, a Communist woman of Chennai went to a Tiruvellore village (an
outskirt village of Madras) under the guise of studying village-goddesses, met women, elders and others. Then, slowly, she started asking about their practices and asked whether “women associating with temples” had been there! They proudly confessed “yes”, as every year, they celebrate temple festivals with fun and piety. When pressed further, they also accepted that they have “belief” in such a way that they treat “the gods” as their “husbands” and “serve”. Immediately, she started taking video. Ironically, when she interviewed men, they also confessed that they treat “the goddesses” as their “wives” and “serve”. So, her hypothesis was completed.
She got “what she wanted”! She came out with a CD exposing “the
temple-prostitution followed by women” even today there in 21st century
metropolitan outskirts dotted with many NRI factories, IT corridors,
Technology Parks, 100% EOUs, SPZs and so on. However, she coolly
suppressed about the “temple-prostitution” followed by the men! When the village people came to know they were enraged and exposed her trick. She came to “recreation cub of a revenue department” and presented the CD during lunch-hour programme. When some crucial questions were asked by the audience, she could not answer and the secretary of the recreation club tactfully concluded as the time was nearing 2.00 pm!
So Zaidi can travel through still beautiful roads to reach many such
sensual parks and villages where sexual activities are taking place! To
put in another way Zaidi can travel in AC car (Car-prostitution has become famous now) beautiful roads (two-three hours travel in four or six-track roads) to reach many such sensual parks (IT) and villages (IT) where sexual activities are taking place (round the clock)! [The IT friends, please no dot get angry with me for giving this example. To drive out the point only, I am giving these details, but they are facts only and verifiable with authorities]. It could be 4,50,000 or 45,00,000 also taking all other categories as mentioned above.
IT Sex Security Act would be introduced soon just like “the 1934 Devadasi Security Act”, as Supreme Court has already given guidelines about the “sexual harassment” of women at “working places”. Anybody can file report before the National Commission for Women (NCW), say, if a women group comes and files a complaint that they are openly vulgarized by using words describing their “skin colour”, “caste name”, etc., but none would care for, as such type of portrayal has become “part” of Indian print and electronic media. They want only “beautiful girls, ladies and women with white / fair skin” for all ads etc., what type “Temple-prostitution” is this?
What about such “divine-girls, ladies and women” working everywhere? They may or may not be having children. If they have, they will be grown as “brother / sister’s children”. As they get plenty of money, such “divine-children” are accommodated in residential schools.
The following hypothesis is generalized one, which has no relevance in the context:
According to the famous Indian scholar Jogan Shankar, following reasons
played a major role in supplanting the system with firm roots:
1. As a substitute for human sacrifice, being and offering to the gods and goddesses to appease and secure blessings for the community as a whole;
2. As a rite to ensure the fertility of the land and the increase of human being and animal population;
3. As a part of phallic worship which existed in India from early
Dravidian times;
4. Probably sacred prostitution sprang from the custom of providing sexual hospitality for strangers;
5. Licentious worship offered by a people, subservient to a degraded and vested interests of the priestly class; and
6. To create a custom in order to exploit lower caste people in India by the upper castes and classes.
I can hypothesize reasons on the same lines. Historically, she has not
produced any evidences for the relied upon points, instead, she tries to generalize and focus to a single point.
Her usage of the word “dalit” in this context is mischievous and
meaningless. Ambedkar never used such expression in the Constitution as she tries to imply nor the word appears in the Constitution. The Anjamma and Ashama stories are selective, as she cannot assert that all the 4,50,000 are exactly like this. She cannot prove that the medieval inscripted women were exclusively low-caste.
Of course, anybody can write poems nowadays, just like painting “gods and goddesses” of one particular in “nude”. In fact, I remember my friend wrote and sent this to Ananta Vikatan when “Hindus sanyasis” were caricatured as “womanizers”, because of “Premandana case” at that time.
The poem appeared in “Ananta Vikatan” [April 8, 1990, under the caption “VIdhi” (fate) p.no.24] written by “K. Chandrakala” carrying a caricature of “sanyasi” on the top:
When I run to escape
from the rapist,
entered a temple.
Oh! Lo,
There is a Sanyasi!
So my friend responded as followed in “a secular way” with the caricatures of a Father and Imam above:
When I run to escape
from the rapist,
entered a temple.
Oh! Lo,
There is a Sanyasi!
When I run to escape
from the rapist,
entered a Church,
for asylum.
Oh! Lo,
There is a Father!
When I run to escape
from the rapist,
entered a mosque.
Oh! Lo,
There is an Imam!
Thus, her “Devadasi saga” appears to be unnatural in the context and
forced upon one. As the poetry-turned prose with some rhyme is accepted as “modern poetry”, anybody can write poems.
Historically, “temple-prostitution” has been there in every religious
group and continues in sophisticated way even today. Simpleton-Hindus
blurt out or blabber anything, if they are given some money or mere solace through words. Just like “monologues” turning into “dialogues” for Christian missionaries, these “researchers” try to misinterpret facts and social conditions. As she is from Aligarh, she could have consulted Irfan Habib about “nache girls and women” at dargas and their position. She could have got details about “nunnery” and connected practices (wearing girdle, lock etc).
So, researchers have to be calm, sensitive and constructive in pointing
out “social aberrations” of a “secular society”, as they claim day in and day out in the name of “secularism”. Let them study collectively and try to abolish such practices, instead of accusing selectively one community.
Remember, prostitutes too have rights – we read last week that the
Bengali prostitutes protested symbolically in a candle glowing mid-night procession”. Researchers, writers and historians have to be careful in the context without exceeding the limits of interpretation. Historians claim that they need not be objective in their interpretation, but they deal with such subjective matters, the wholeness has to be viewed and respected, instead of blowing up common social aberrations. As the enacted Acts and Rules do not attract or people do not want to come within their purview, the issue has to be dealt with differently. Any biased, prejudiced or vested interpretation or act would not give correct result.
- VedaPrakash,
Founder-Director
Institute for the Study of Western Religions
Chennai, India
Editor- We have received several emails on this ongoing discussion on different e-forums, on the
Devadasi article written by Dr. Zoya Zaidi that was published in the May 2008 issue of SikhSpectrum. Most discussion continues to emphasize “Hindu bashing”, “decadence of West”, homosexual predators in the Catholic church, Geisha girls of Japan, a reference to Christian, communist and Muslim research methodology, Khalisthanis, Islamic sharia, honor killings, witch burnings, and "IT related /hi-tech prostitution" in India.
While these topics may be important topics to discuss they have absolutely no bearing on the living conditions of devadasis in India. We do not know the total number of devadasis in India, but even one devadasi woman who has been wrongly exploited is far too many. Except the message from Dr. Satish Prakash, no participant has made the effort to explicitly address the issues raised in the Devadasi article.
Dr. Prakash writes:
“Listen, we are all, by and large, proud of Vaidik Sanaatan Dharma, but there are certain parts of our Hindu past that point to degenerate times in India. The Devadaasi system is one of those pointers. The call of these times is to recognize such pointers and educate our people so that we may overcome our own flaws.”
Previously, we had requested everyone interested in commenting on Dr. Zaidi’s article to send us a well-written response that we could publish on our website. We reiterate that request again:
“Please send us a detailed and well-referenced article on how and why the author has erred and we will gladly publish it on SikhSpectrum.com. By doing so not only will the readers know where the author has erred, it will also give Dr. Zaidi an opportunity to clarify any concerns that you might have. Unless you can clearly explain and point to her why you disagree with the contents of her article there is no way for her to respond to you in an attempt to clarify her views on devadasis. We hope that you will send us a well-written article soon and we promise to publish it on our website for everyone to read.”
Again, we request people to focus on the article without getting sidetracked by other issues. Other topics can be addressed as a separate, well-referenced article that may be submitted to us for pubication in a future issue of SikhSpectrum.
I have read this article, which seems to be well researched and relevant
to the modern society. Zoya Zaidi provides an estimate of over 250,000
current Devdasis still in India. If what she describes is true, which
appears to be the case as she lists testimony of living people with
pictures and places, then the real issue is to discuss that system. If it
has a religious sanction, it must be removed given what these women are
going through.
That said, Zoya Zaidi does not seem to be a truth seeker and her
intentions seem to have an agenda that may include putting someone else's
religion in bad light. Some of her legends and stories (for example,
Renuka story) will be contested by mainstream scholars. She has taken
liberty to prove her points, which while within journalistic boundary, may
not meet the test of unbiased reporting. Her cited works do not seem to
reflect her even- handedness in dealing with women issues, and thus she
can not claim to be pro-woman writer. She is probably exploiting the field
for her own anguish as a woman who is unable to confront the system under
which she lives, and is using the path of least resistance to express
herself. What she can not do is her own problem.
I think Hindus should accept Devdasi system in its perverted form as a
problem and pledge to correct it as needed. At the same time, those in the
business of intellectual exercise or social reforms should point out the
sufferings of women, and others under the garb of Sharia or catholicism
wherever it may exist. Zoya Zaidi could be invited to contribute to those
issues. If she refuses, her sincerity to her cause will be questionable.
The answers to your queries lie in the article itself:
1) “Zoya Zaidi provides an estimate of over 250,000
current Devdasis still in India. If what she describes is true…”
For answer- Look up reference no (2) in the article:
(2) http://uk.geocities.com/dalitsnuk/dalitrights/issue6.html
Lakhs of Dalit women are being forced into the devadasi system in several states of the country according to a report commissioned by the National Commission for Women (NCW).
According to an estimate, around 2.5 lakh girls are dedicated as devadasis to Yellamma and Khandoba temples in the Maharashtra-Karnataka border area. They all are from the Dalit community.
According to a survey carried out among 375 devadasis by the Joint Women's Programme, Bangalore for the NCW, 63.6% of the young girls were forced into the devadasi system due to custom, while 38% reported that their families had a history of devadasis
2) “Some of her legends and stories (for example, Renuka story) will be contested by mainstream scholars.”
For answer- 3ook up reference no (4) in the article: http://ambedkar.org/buddhism/Devadasies_Were_Degraded_Buddhist_Nuns.htm
3) As for the author writing on other issues- Kindly read the author's article, Atrocities on Women through the Ages, on the following URL:
http://www.sikhspectrum.com/022006/women.htm
It includes the issues you mentioned and many more.
As I read this article I was shaking my head at the computer with tears in
my eyes. The India I have known as a tourist is a facinating country, but
the undercurrents of a country "Locked in tradition," the abuse of people
in a position of power and so much more that this article portrayed is
indescribable.
The poetry as the finale is very hard hitting, obviously truthful and
reactionary, which is its intent, (not to mention a very fine write).
When the can of worms has been opened, you will always find the cowards
running for cover and the powerful defiance and downright hatred from
their being exposed. Thank goodness there are people like Ms. Zoya Zaidi
who will shout louder and bring this terrible injustice to the worlds
attention. The creativity of the author is a great medium and asset to her
writing.
I read this article a few minutes ago, and I checked the references that were used. It is a very good article in my opinion because you managed to write it in a way that expresses it wasn't with bad intent. An article based on the facts you gathered from the references you used. The way an article should be written. And some might jump to conclusions without checking the references. I feel that it is very wrong to do it in that way. Remember to check the references, it will show that it wasn't written with bad intent, which it wasn't.
Is prostitution ever sacred or holy? The question is not
that of the value of the Hindu religion but of human decency. Throughout time people have been deceived into believing that their religion gives Devadasies a sacred position, and their duty to be for the gods.
I cannot see that the gods will allow people to treat their fellow humans in this manner. Let the gods punish us if we deserve punishment, if we deserve to be treated in that way, let this treatment come from the gods. But as for us, let us treat our fellow humans with kindness and sincerity as the Hindu religion and all other religions teach us to do so. There are problems like this in all religions. But going to the root of what the religion really teaches, there is no problem with Hinduism.
In his article, “Do Sikhs Worship GURU GRANTH? Yes, But!”, Harbans Lal in
para II has tried to argue that "with the ending of the guruship in the
human form, the guru worship was soon to be changed into a new concept and format". Then he tries to prove his point by misquoting Gurbani to suit his own pre-conceived notion as quoted before. However, here I am going to concentrate on the point where Harbans Lal quotes Harjot Oberoi on the practice of Hindu rituals by people claiming to be Sikhs.
In his book Ethics of the Sikhs, Avtar Singh states, “Any new religion in its acceptance of the contents of the older faiths and traditions appears very close to them, but its individuality and distinction is marked by what it rejects of the old and what it introduces afresh, thereby precipitating a new gestalt. When the differences reach a stage that departure becomes irreversible, then it is neither necessary nor perhaps possible to reduce it to the earlier traditions, to which it may be indebted in many ways” (p. 6). Sikhism has got no philosophical similarity with Hinduism at all.
Shabad Guru is what Sikhs revere. This was right there from Guru Nanak:
pavan arambh satgur mat vaylaa. From the air came the beginning. This is the age of the True Guru's
Teachings.
sabad guroo surat Dhun chaylaa. The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple.
akath kathaa lay raha-o niraalaa. Speaking the Unspoken Speech, I remain unattached.
naanak jug jug gur gopaalaa. O Nanak, throughout the ages, the Lord of the World is my Guru.
ayk sabad jit kathaa veechaaree. I contemplate the sermon of the Shabad, the Word of the One God.
gurmukh ha-umai agan nivaaree. ||44||
The Gurmukh puts out the fire of egotism. ||44|| (Guru Granth Sahib, p. 943)
Let us now come to the practice part of it. Comparatively speaking, in the modern world we see that first generation migrants are not able to
establish a rapport with the host community of their adopted country the way their children and grand children would do. Such people would even delay taking the citizenship of their adopted country and accordingly delay surrendering of the citizenship of their birth country. They continue to live in two countries mentally. Developing of such dualistic tendencies is not the fault of their adopted country. Similarly it is not the fault of Sikhism that some people calling themselves Sikhs carry on with the rituals that are against the tenets of Sikhism.
To understand why and how this happens, let us now look at another aspect of migrants. Some migrants not only take the citizenship of their adopted country as soon as they become eligible but also change their names to suit the culture of host country. Literally they try to do everything the way Romans do. But when it comes to paying taxes they try their best to evade it. They would dodge paying the fees for essential services. They would not hesitate from queue jumping everywhere. Such evasions, equivocations and mental reservations again are not the fault of their adopted country as such deep rooted characteristics based on the practices in their birth country came along in the mind of a migrant.
Clearly citing Oberoi, Harbans Lal’s argument is from ignorance where he is trying to cover— may be —his own shortcomings when it comes to practicing Sikhism.
I am encouraged on reading the above two letters of Dr. Satish Prakash. He has recommended us to read chapter 11 of Satyarth Prakaash. I remember reading that entire document a number of years ago. Somehow I am lost here as to what Dr. Prakash is referring to. It would be commendable of him to educate us as to what is so special about this chapter 11.
I fully concur with comments made by Gurtej Singh about this article by
Harbans Lal.
During Virtual Africans and New Diasporic Discourse -IAMCR Porto Alegre
2004 conference, Dr Chika Anyanwu, University of Adelaide South Australia
while citing Braziel and Mannur(Braziel, J. E. and Mannur, A. (2003)
(Eds.) Theorizing Diaspora, Maryland USA Blackwell
Publication) argued how participatory disparity and differences emerge
under the influence of "homogenizing forces".
Similarly, Oscar Handlin has come up with Diaspora studies where he
explains how new migrant communities struggle. In the current
multicultural world these paradigms could aptly be applied to growth of
Sikhism. I wonder why scholars do not update their knowledge about current
trends in research while continuing to hang on to the agenda driven works
of Harjot Oberoi.
Harbans Lal writes: "Now the Word Guru is physically personified in the
verses, the songs, the teachings, and the inspirations. To accommodate
this novel paradigm the guru worship needed entirely novel types of
rituals, religious practices, and above all, channels of communication
suitable with the Word form of the guru."
In these two lines Harbans Lal contradicts his entire thesis. His thesis depends on the ignorance of the people he is addressing. What he has tried to do in this article of contrived logic is to play with the timeline. In doing this he is in the company of his peers like Harjot Oberoi and Hew McLeod who have made their careers out of this practice.
Sabad Guru or “Word Guru” was physically personified in Gurbani by Guru
Nanak and before him men-of-God like Sheikh Farid and Bhagat Sain. Thus
novelty was not in the paradigm of Sabad Guru but in the way it manifested itself through the corporal guruship to be ultimately housed in a collective – a collective which was nurtured over two hundred years for this very purpose.
After Harjot Oberoi’s concocted thesis of construction of religious boundaries was thoroughly debunked, Harbans Lal seems to have
taken it upon himself to prove to the McLeodian school that he is a better horse to bet on than many of its existing members. Like a right of passage, he is trying to revive Oberoi’s discredited theory by pushing it further back in history to just after the demise of Guru Gobind Singh.
Thus we have three theories in circulation trying to challenge the
distinct Sikh identity.
First, Gokul Chand Narang’s, which comes from the Arya Samajist school of thought that flourished in the late 19th and early 20th century. This school tried to present the completion of Guru Nanak’s mission in 1699 as some sort of “transformation” thereby trying to portray the Mahants occupying the Gurdwaras as “Sikhs of Guru Nanak” and those planning to kick them out, as “Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh”. His theory was not only thoroughly debunked by Sikh scholars, but he also failed to prevent the inevitable – eviction of Mahants from Gurdwaras.
Second, Hew McLeod’s sometimes amusing, sometimes downright dishonest
theories, which come from the Missionary school of thought that seemed to see the (impending) departure of British from Indian sub-continent in 1947 as a disgrace for having left some very important tasks unfinished, like providing the nations of the sub-continent with the only way of salvation – faith in Jesus, the Christ. If one studies the history of the sub-continent for the period of 1940-1960 the sudden spurt in the missionary activity comes as quite a surprise.
One notable aspect of this spurt is that an overwhelming majority of these missionaries came from former British colonies that had become permanent settlements for the European nationalities – like Australia, New Zealand, USA, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. It seems that by virtue of triumphs at home, the missionaries from these countries considered themselves especially well-equipped to deal with a situation that was fast spiraling out of control. As history tells us, what people belonging to the missionary school of thought feared, did happen, a chain reaction that started with the departure of British from
the sub-continent and over the next few years resulted in de-colonization of much of the colonized world.
Third, Harjot Oberoi’s theory, which comes from the
scholarship-for-sale-to-the-highest-bidder school of thought. Its
practitioners are more like lawyers than objective historians – they
provide arguments to prove the case of their client. This school cannot be distinguished from its clients. For instance, Harjot Oberoi, Jeevan Deol, Pashaura Singh, Gurinder Mann, to name but a few are engaged by the Missionary school of thought whose prominent members include N. G. Barrier and Hew McLeod. The hired scholars cite their client scholars and vice-versa thereby creating a mutually beneficial relationship that
precludes any criticism of each other’s work and methodology.
Harbans Lal’s present article seems to announce his hiring by the
Missionary school of thought. My congratulations to Dr. Lal on his
professional achievement.
I whole-heartedly appreciate this article by S. Baldev Singh. I have
always cringed at Khushwant Singh's skewed writings on Sikhism, and could not have done such a logical repudiation of his work and the lies he propagates, even if I had studied Sikh history for ten lives.
Gurbani guides us that the creator has told us how we come to this world
but has not revealed where we go after death.
So awareness of life and death provides us with an understanding of "Jun" or
what is life and what is death. How we get this awarness is through
the breath "Sah".
Gurbani guides us to use each and every breath Saas Saas Simroo Gobind.
Which brings us to a state of Now !!!
with each breath without thinking about the next breath.
Mat Kay Japay Sah aa-way Kay na aaway Raam.
Another dimesion to the "Juni" is sas (awarness) and manua
(where that awarness is processed)
Taking of each breath seems like a "jun" where for the time we are not
connected with the Guru and under the influence of "sas". without Guru or
Manua:
Bin gur manua na tikai fir fir juni pa-aye.
So fir fir juni at micro or lowest level is the repeated sas without the
Guru.
No reincarnation, no interpretation of life after.
Now is the time to connect with the Guru if not then many comparisons with
various creations sarap or cooker etc.
It seem Guru Saab has made these behavioural comparisons to make us
understand rather than it being an endoresement to reincarnation. For example:
Ik Garhi na Miltay Ta Kaljug hota.
Now is the time to connect with the Guru. Sangat may please bless and guide for better understanding of these
evolving thoughts.
Dr. Zaidi's article on Devadasis is both heart wrenching and very
informative. I so enjoyed reading this and in retrospect find that I am
so thankful for my human rights. Anyone who has a complaint of their
circumstances should read this article.
The word Hindu comes indeed from the word Sindhu. The Iranians "h" sound
is equivalent to the sanskrit "s" sound. Examples include "Hepta/Septa",
"Harahvati/Saraswati" and so on.
The meaning "Hindu" to that of a slave/dark skinned person was assigned
during the Muslim conquest of India, where they subjugated the native
population as slaves. The word "Habshi" also means slave in Arabic, but it
denotes the citizen of Abyssania/Ethiopia.
The word "Sindhu" was corrupted by Persians to "Hindu" and which is
further corrupted by the Greeks as "India". These are historical facts.
The author may object to Sikhs being termed Hindus, but please do proper
research.
- Kiran Varanasi
In his letter, Parampreet Singh ji after giving 3 or 4 lines from Gurbani, writes at the end:
“I hope this clairifies the issue a little bit. I request the author to focus on these panktis and let everyone know.”
But rather than clarifying the issue, it has completely confused me and had me thinking, Is Gurbani contradictory? So I am putting my confusion in front of Parampreet Singh ji, so that he can clarify a little bit.
According to Karma and reincarnation theory same person is born again or he is liberated altogether not to take birth again. Here is where my confusion starts:
As per this theory, there are only two possibilities:
1)
Human population will remain constant, (here I am considering that no one is being liberated - worst case scenario) as same people are being born again and again.
2)
If some enlightened people are being liberated “paar uttara”, then human population has to be on a downslide i.e. decreasing and ultimately with every human being liberated, human beings “homo sapiens” will become an extinct species.
So, how come human population is increasing at a rapid rate? Where are these extra people coming from?
I think, some one like Parampreet Singh ji must have approached Guru Saab with this Karma theory, that’s why Guru Saab has written the following Sabad in GGS:
When nothing existed, what deeds were being done? And what karma caused anyone to be born at all? The Lord Himself set His play in motion, and He Himself beholds it. He created the Creation. O my Sovereign Lord, I cannot do anything at all by myself. He Himself is the Creator, He Himself is the Cause. He is pervading deep within all.If my account were to be judged, I would never be saved. My body is transitory and ignorant. Take pity upon me, O Creator Lord God; Your Forgiving Grace is singular and unique. You created all beings and creatures. Each and every heart meditates on You. Your condition and expanse are known only to You; the value of Your creative omnipotence cannot be estimated. I am worthless, foolish, thoughtless and ignorant. I know nothing about good actions and righteous living. Take pity on Nanak, that he may sing Your Glorious Praises; and that Your Will may seem sweet to him.
Now, Gurbani is not contradictory, so I think after reading this Sabad, Parampreet Singh ji should again read the verses quoted by him and try to understand them. In many sabads/verses, Guru Saab first gives the thoughts or ideas of other religions and then gave his own views at the end or it is there in the rahao of the sabad.
For example, the first less than half line that Parampreet Singh ji has quoted is from the following Sabad:
“koee jaanai kavan eehaa jag meeth ||
jis hoe kirapaal soee bidhh boojhai thaa kee niramal reeth ||1|| rehaao ||
maath pithaa banithaa suth ba(n)dhhap eisatt meeth ar bhaaee || poorab janam kae milae sa(n)jogee a(n)thehi ko n sehaaee ||1||
mukath maal kanik laal heeraa man ra(n)jan kee maaeiaa ||
haa haa karath bihaanee avadhhehi thaa mehi sa(n)thokh n paaeiaa ||2||
hasath rathh asv pavan thaej dhhanee bhooman chathuraa(n)gaa ||
sa(n)g n chaaliou ein mehi kashhooai oot(h) sidhhaaeiou naa(n)gaa ||3||
har kae sa(n)th pria preetham prabh kae thaa kai har har gaaeeai ||
naanak eehaa sukh aagai mukh oojal sa(n)g sa(n)than kai paaeeai ||4||1||”(GGS,700)
Rare are those people, who knows who is the real friend in this world.He alone understands this, whom the Lord blesses with His Mercy and then his way of life becomes unstained(Rahao)
It is said that mother, father, spouse, children, relatives, lovers, friends and siblings meet, having been associated in previous lives; but none of them will be your companion and support in the end (here Guru has given the thought prevalent among people).
Pearl necklaces, gold, rubies and diamonds please the mind, but they are only Maya. Possessing them, one passes his life in agony; he obtains no contentment from them. Elephants, chariots, horses as fast as the wind, wealth, land, and armies of four kinds - none of these will go with him; he must get up and depart, naked. The Lord's Saints are the beloved lovers of God; sing of the Lord, Har, Har, with them. O Nanak, the Society of the Saints (honest, humble and God loving people), you shall obtain peace in this world, and the society of saints is the next world in whose company you become radiant and bright.
What happens after death? Guru Saab tells:
“jas ja(n)thee mehi jeeo samaanaa ||
mooeae maram ko kaa kar jaanaa “(GGS,325)
Once an (musical) instrument player takes his hands off the instrument the sound of the music disappears and nobody can tell where it went; in the same way how can anyone know the secret of the dead?
Parampreet Singh ji writes:
“These are just few examples. There are lots of others in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.”
There are innumerable verses in GGS that reject this reincarnation theory and Karma. Reincarnation is for those who have not understood the concept of the life and are waiting to get some rewards in after life.
Guru Saab says :
“ahi kar karae s ahi kar paaeae eik gharree muhath n lagai”(GGS,1098)
Whatever one does with this hand, he obtains with the other hand, without a moment's delay.
There is a big misconception about Gurbani, The purpose of Gurbani and Guru Sahibs is to make an ideal human being who sees God in all, and serves everyone and anyone without the desire of any reward.
I close my letter by a quote from Einstein:
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward then
We are a sorry lot indeed.
- Gurpreet Singh
It appears that Mr. Parampreet Singh from India needs to learn more about
basic grammar and other literary aspects. It will help greatly in
discussing Gurbani, if he is able to download, read and understand Gurmat
Sidhant written by Prof Sahib Singh:
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/pdf/gurmatsidhant.pdf
I read with great interest the letter authored by Prof. Bal Ram Singh. My
understanding is that he is a professor at the University of Massachusetts
as well as the director, Center of Indic Studies.
It seems to me Prof. Bal Ram Singh was surprised and distressed by the
contents of the article on the Devadassi system. Him being the director of
Center of Indic Studies for the past few years at least should have prepared
him for the realities of the Hindu society and for what really goes on
inside its borders. It seems to me that the Center of Indic Studies has not
been seriously studying Hinduism.
I would like to ask Prof. B.R. Singh this question: Isn’t Devadassi system
(Temple prostitution) a part of the Hindu spirituality? If his answer is
no, then tell us why not. If his answer is yes, then please educated us how
so.
Regards.
- G.B. Singh
The criticism of Prof. Bhai Harbans Lal’s article....
I want to bring to the notice of Sikhs, particularly intellectuals and scholars with expertise in Sikh studies that recently the Centennial Foundation of Canada honored W. H. McLeod for his work in the field of Sikh studies (K. P. Singh: VAISAKHI GALA IN TORONTO: A showcase of history and cultural heritage", SikhSpectrum.com, May 2007). Referring to Dr. McLeod it is stated that
”Dr. McLeod is one of the giants in the field of Sikh scholarship in the English language. Based in New Zealand, he is the author of dozen books on Sikh history, philosophy, culture, Scriptures and literature.”
This statement raises many questions but I will limit myself to three:
1. Recommending a scholar for an award/honor needs the sound judgment of other scholars with expertise in that field. So who were the experts (or the Committee of experts) in the field of Sikh Studies that recommended W. H. McLeod for this award?
2. Do the founders or the management of Centennial Foundation have expertise in the field of Sikh Studies?
3. Were there any experts in Sikh Studies among the participants in the 2007 VAISAKHI GALA?
I would appreciate an answer from the Centennial Foundation.
It is very rare to find someone who i can relate to about shastar
vidya this person is very knowledgeable and i am proud to stand alongside
this person as a fellow student and a lover of shastar vidya. Great
article!
This article is an "EYE OPENER" for everyone.
It is a must read article for every person who wants to see how a very
well-written constitution can be destroyed step by step by self-centred, egoistic,
selfish, ill-informed, and illiterate politicians,
who entered the parliament by adopting these methodolgies of collecting
votes (through illegal means) that defied the same constitution.
This is not limited to India or Russia or China; It is now happening
everywhere.
1. Note the following paragraph from the article written by GB Singh:
Clause 2a of Article 25 is muddy at best. Considering the constitutional
write-up, it seems religion is composed of economic, political, and
worship activities. Anything other than worship activity is termed
"secular."
Therefore, in accordance with the constitution, the Indian State has the
right to interfere with those activities of the church it considers
"secular." The church, structure included, is after all an economic
adventure. In a socialist country like India, organized religions
(Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, etc.) with large groups of people
interacting
among themselves and others amounts to nothing less than political
activity.
Any propagation of religion will require a number of "secular" tasks:
financial, organizational, and personnel activities (just to name a
few).
So, according to Clause 2a of the Article 25 of Indian constitution,
collection of Dasvand for teaching Gurmat Sangeet or Punjabi language or
Sankhya is a non-religious activity. Collection of large number of Sikh
for interaction on any aspect of religion is a "POLITICAL ACTIVITY" and
Indian government has every right to interfere with force (such as Blue
Star).
2. Look at the Clause (1) of article 19 which gives all the rights to each
and every citizen in relation to freedom of speach. Then look at Clause
(2) which takes away all those rights one by one by the amendments made by
those self-centred, egoistic, selfish, ill-informed, and
illiterate politicians.
I comment that the author should list the Bill of Rights of India in a proper
manner like that of the United States of America and not compare the Bill of
Rights of India with that of United Sates of America.
I applaud Colonel G. B. Singh for his insightful and thought provoking commentary on the Indian Constitution (Bill of Rights in the Constitution of India, SikhSpectrum.com May 2007). To my knowledge no one has exposed the deception and manipulation camouflaged in “high sounding words and phraseology” inherent in the Indian Constitution, the way Singh has done. The treatment meted out to non-Hindu Indians since independence in 1947 demonstrates very clearly that for them this wordy and complex document is not worth the paper on which it is written. To hoodwink the Indian masses and the world community, the upper caste framers of the constitution made Dr. Ambedkar, a highly educated man with M.A. and Ph.D. from Columbia University, M.Sc. and D.Sc. from London University, and Bar-at-Law from Grey’s Inn, London, and the leader of Antyajas (untouchables), Chairman of the drafting committee. He was used as a tool to sanctify the evil designs of the upper caste framers of the constitution regarding non-Hindus.
In 1949, in spite of vehement opposition of the “only two Sikh representatives”, Hukam Singh and Bhupinder Singh Mann who refused to sign the document, the Indian Parliament declared Sikhs along with Jains and Buddhists as Hindus in the Indian Constitution under Article 25. The Sikhs have not signed this document as yet.
Now there are three questions to ponder over for those who keep parroting: India is the biggest democracy in the world.
First, how could democracy be compatible with the caste ideology, which is based on the fundamental belief that human beings are unequal forever on the basis of birth and gender? Besides, the caste ideology is incompatible with universal human rights, as the foundation of caste is the cardinal doctrine of Karma and Transmigration: One is rewarded or punished in the present life according to ones deeds/actions in the previous life. So the question of injustice, inequality and cruelty does not arise in “Hindu democracy.” Even the modern Hindus “Avatars” like Gandhi and Vivekananda were diehard advocates and defenders of the caste system.
“I believe in Varna Ashrama (caste system) which is the law of life. The law of Varna (color or caste) is nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be a scavenger if I am one?”
Mahatma Gandhi, Harijan, 3-6-1947.
“He, Sudra may not be called a Brahman, though he (Sudra) may have all the qualities of a Brahman in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Sudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility.”
Mahatma Gandhi, Young India, 11-24-1927.
“There is something in caste, so far as it means blood: such a thing as heredity there is, certainly. Now try to [understand]—why do you not mix blood with the Negroes, and the American Indians? Nature will not allow you. Nature does not allow you to mix your blood with them. There is unconscious working that saves the race. That was the Aryan’s caste. … The Hindus believe—that is a peculiar belief, I think; and I do not know, I have nothing to say to the contrary, I have not found anything to the contrary—they believe there was only one civilized race: the Aryan. Until he gives the blood, no other race can be civilized.”
[An excerpt from a speech Swami Vivekananda delivered on February 2, 1900 to white audience in Pasadena, California .(G. B. Singh. Gandhi: Behind the Mask of Divinity, Prometheus Books, 2004, pp. 239-40.)]
Shortly after declaring Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists as Hindus, Hindu Code Bill was imposed on them while exempting Muslims and Christians. This was done to mislead Christians and Muslims of the world with the impression that Hindus are tolerant and peaceful people and the Hindu polity is liberal and secular.
The second point is the economic injustice to non-Hindu minorities. The Muslim rulers used to coerce non-Muslims to convert to Islam. They imposed Jizya (tax) on non-Muslims whereas the leaders of Hindu democracy are doing the same thing through the Indian Constitution. The Indian Constitution guaranteed reservations for Hindu untouchables and few lower castes in government jobs and in education providing these groups with scholarships, and other economic advantages. Slowly most of the Hindu castes were included in the reservation category. Now a days the remaining few castes Jats, Gujars and even Brahmans and Rajputs are trying to get into the reservation category. It must be pointed out here that vast majority of Muslims sand Christians are converts from untouchables and lower Hindu castes and their economic status is no better than the Hindu untouchables and other lower castes. They have been left out purposely to fend for themselves.
The reservation for Hindu Untouchables and lower castes serves two purposes: 1) it deters the conversion of Hindu untouchables and lower castes to Islam, Christianity and other religions; 2) it puts pressure on economically destitute Muslims and Christians to convert to Hinduism to take advantage of reservations. Thus the Hindu democracy is helping only the Hindu untouchables and low castes at the expense of non-Hindus.
Third, the attitude of Hindu judiciary towards non-Hindus is not very different from that of Hindu politicians and law enforcement agencies. For example, Muslims constitute 10-12% of India's population but in some states like UP (Uttar Pardesh), Muslim population is about 20% of the total population. To deprive the Muslims of UP of their religious minority status, the Hindu politicians passed a law that any community with 20% population is not minority and a Hindu judge of UP went along with this decision. According to the Hindu thinking, the only minorities in India are Hindu castes, not non-Hindus (Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and others) whose combined population is about 20%.
Further, UN Declaration of Rights of Minorities, 1993, protects the rights of minorities, as almost every nation-state is multi-religious, multicultural and multilingual. On the other hand, on August 8, 2005, judgment of a three-judge Bench of the Supreme Court of India, written by Justice D. M. Dharmadhikari, upheld Article 25 of the Indian Constitution that recognizes Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists as Hindus. Contrary to the UN Declaration of Human Rights and Minority Rights, in Hindu democracy it is the Hindu polity and Supreme Court that determines the religion of minorities and advocates the assimilation of minorities in Hinduism as a desirable goal.
I have completed 75% work on my proposed book MANAGEMENT GURU HANUMAN.
The book is aimed at the multifaceted personality, valorous deeds, great
humility, serving attitude, power of speech of Lord Hanuman as a model of
personality development and management of affairs for youth. This is based
on a nearly 2 years of study, research and discussions with scholars.
I liked very much the following article published on your website titled,
Bhagavad Gita And Management, by M.P.Bhattathiry,
Retd. Chief Technical Examiner to the Govt. of Kerala, India.
In fact I was very much impressed to note that Management Institutes are
giving well deserved attention to these, at last and would like to reproduce this
above article as an Annexure to my above book.
In response to Akshay Aggarwal's feedback where he asked me to list "Bill of Rights of India in a proper manner", I believe it cannot be done because there are no "Bill of Rights" guaranteed in the constitution of India. I request him to read my article carefully.
I want to clarify what Kulbir Singh Malhotra wrote in the first paragraph of his letter to editor. The Indian Constitution was never a well-written document. Many amendments have only worsened this document further to the advantage of the ruling elites.
With regards to the article on the Devadasis system, I draw your attention to a book "Secrets of Sorcery Spells and Pleasure Cults of India" by P. Thomas. In this book, chapter 12 is on the devadasis. Here is something of importance:
"The number of Devadasis in a medieval Hindu temple was generally proportional to the fame of the shrine. The celebrated temple of Somnath, which Mahmud Ghazni destroyed, had more than 500 Devadasis in its service, 'in order to provide music before the idol throughout day and night.' The Tanjore temple built by king Raja Rajah Chola in the 10th century of the Christian era, had an initial endowment of 400 Devadasis, and each was given land for her maintenance. The Sun temples were particularly famous for their Devadasis.... In the Bhavishya Purana we read that the surest way of attaining Surya Loka or the Heaven of Sun was to dedicate a bevy of dancing girls to a sanctuary built in honour of the sun-god."
-G.B. Singh
N. S. R. Sastry’s letter to editor....
-Baldev Singh, USA
from Baldev Singh
Place: USA
Dear Editor,
N. S. R. Sastry’s letter to editor (ref: http://www.sikhspectrum.com/052004/gita_management_6.htm http) reminded me of my class fellow Satya Naryan Raju from Andhra Pardesh when I was studying at Benaras Hindu University for M.Sc. degree in chemistry (1960-62). Raju was a very pleasant person with a cheerful disposition. Moreover, he was a rationalist and gifted with a quick wit. I have not met many Indians like him. One day Raju remarked, “Baldev, do you know that when man was fully developed (evolved) in Northern India, our ancestors in the South were still carrying tales?” “Are you talking about the mighty warrior Hanuwant (Hanuman) Ji?” I replied. “Of course,” he said with a laughter and then with a grin on his face he said, “ It is ironic and funny that naive North Indians worship him as a god.”
I was doing an essay on the whole cause and effect of 9/11, and
when I read this article, it really got to me about how it is still an
issue and people are just ignorant about it. I really liked this article
and it helped me a lot! Thanks and keep up the goood work.
I read and re-read the critique on Hew McLeod trying to make some sense of
it. Despite its length it does not seem to make any clear argument or try
to prove any points. I don't believe everything Dr. McLeod says but in
the few books I have read at least he gives reasons, be they right or
wrong.
Please help us understand the nature of the controversy by explaining more
clearly exactly what wrong things he said and how the evidence shows how
they are wrong.
I will only say to you that....