It was the best article on W.H. McLeod controversy free of bias and intellectually a sound approach. You put in a lot of labor. Congrats dear young man.
Well I feel that this article is written very well. The understanding
and the basis behind the whole supposed plot of shaster vidya being a bad thing is in false. Shaster Vidya is a form of Martial Arts, a
way to defend yourself, the same as any other form of martial arts. You
should ask yourself, what is shaster vidya really doing to the Sikh people. It gives them courage. So in my opinion Shaster Vidya is a good
form of Martial Arts
Editor-- McLeod made some statements that are rejected by Sikh scholars. This is the thrust of the article. Many of our readers have appreciated the information that gets posted on this forum including articles on McLeod that have been published in the past.
Why are you guys wasting time on rebuttles like this? I say let us just
move on and leave McLeod to answer to God for himslef. He may be a great
philosopher, analyst whatever, but he is not my hero! Wrong or right, May
God Bless him for learning Sikh religion and presenting his views.
Editor-- If you feel that Maharaja Ranjit Singh and his family "did
the most damage to Sikhs and their history" please send us a well-written analysis and we will gladly publish it for our readers.If you have information that you would like to pass to the author you can send it to us and we will forward it to him.
Who cares what happened to these people? In my view, Ranjit Singh and his
family were not following the true sikh traditions anyways. Practice of
satti (bride burning! Come on! that is not a sikh tradition). Calling
themselves Maharajas and Princes! I don't understand why so much credit is
given to these people. I think Maharaja Ranjit singh and his family did
the most damage to Sikhs and their history. Yes! I do give him credit for
uniting Sikhs, but at what expense. A good leader is supposed to be a visionary,
and not just a good warrior. I don't think he was a visionary, he might
have been a good warrior.
One must not forget that the traditional institutions...
Editor-- This is Iswhinder Singh's response to the letter sent by Manjit Singh of California.
One must not forget that the traditional institutions like family, Gurudwara, school etc have failed in transmitting the Sikh heritage to the younger generation in Punjab as well as diaspora. For those who are interested in knowing more about their religion, the usual recourse is books on Sikh history. Books by McLeod are easily available, come highly recommended and are in English (the preferred language of GeNExT Sikhs).
Moreover, non-Sikhs usually refer to books by 'acknowledged authorities' to learn more about Sikhism. Prescribed texts for Sikhism classes simply must include books by McLeod. Western scholars usually blindly quote what McLeod has written. Therefore such "rebuttals" are not a "waste of time" but rather a worthy investament. Those who chose to ignore what such "great philosopher(s) [and] analyst(s)" write, do so at their own peril and they should not get peeved when school textbooks carry misinformation about Sikhs, Sikhism and our Gurus..
May Waheguru bless you for fighting back the abominable blasphemies uttered by McLeod against Sikhism and Guru Nanak Sahib Jee. Such people are driven by their westernized 'modernity' of thought and debate and fail to understand that Satguru is capable of anything literally,because he is virtually God in person, with all His qualities.So performing miracles is no problem for Satgurujee.SGGS says Poora Satguru has all the supernatural powers.And our Gurus were all Poora Satguru.
This is with reference to the book review of Prof W.H. McLeod's Sikhs of the Khalsa: A history of the Khalsa Rahit by Jagpal S Tiwana published in the January 2004 issue of The Sikh Review [pp. 93-96]
In the review, Mr Tiwana observes
"On Five K's, McLeod carefully examines each document to establish that no Rahitnama or book before the Singh Sabha period list [sic] them as Five Ks. He tends to agree with J. S. Grewal that Five Ks were there as part of the Khalsa initiation in 1699, though not called Five Ks, as we understand them now. They started appearing as Five Ks in the last quarter of the 19th century in the works of the Singh Sabha leaders." [pp. 95-96]
Unfortunately, this statement glosses over some very controversial conclusions reached by McLeod in his book. Nowhere does McLeod state that "[the] Five Ks were there as part of the Khalsa initiation in 1699, though not called Five Ks". Infact, one of the main arguments pursued by McLeod in this book is that Guru Gobind Singh did not enjoin the wearing of all the Five Ks during his lifetime. This becomes clear from the following quotations from Sikhs of the Khalsa.
"Guru Gobind Singh did not include them [the Five Ks] in his instructions at the founding of the Khalsa; they do not appear during the following century and three quarters; and they make their appearance only when Singh Sabha reformers were convinced that the Guru must have introduced them." [p. 204]
"But did he [Guru Gobind Singh] command all five to be observed and were they called the Five Ks? The answers to these two questions are assuredly in the negative. It is only with the coming of the Singh Sabha movement, towards the end of the nineteenth century that both the questions come to be answered in the affirmative. The notion of the Five Ks comes to the fore at that time, having never been known before then. These Five Ks are declared to have been a vital part of the Rahit since the very beginning of the Khalsa and as such to have been a part of the Guru's first instructions to the members of his new order. This, however, is a mistaken view. " [p. 212]
McLeod accepts that Guru Gobind Singh instructed his Sikhs to wear five weapons, but these were not the Five Ks. He does not tell us as to why these five weapons were changed to the Five Ks by the Singh Sabha. However, in an endnote he mentions
"[Dr] Pashaura Singh suggests that it was as a result of the British ban on carrying weapons that the Singh Sabha replaced the 'five weapons' with 'five religious symbols', that is with the Five Ks." [p. 249]
Responding to Dr J.S. Grewal's observation that although the early documentary sources do not name the Five Ks, all the five items were nevertheless a part of the Khalsa apparel from the very beginning; McLeod states "that all five items may have been worn by Khalsa Sikhs since the very earliest days of the order". [p. 212] But this was not due to any injunction by Guru Gobind Singh.
I hope you will bring the above points to the notice of your readers.
With Regards,
Ishwinder Singh
Congratulations on the excellent work in organizing...
-Manbir Singh Chowdhary, USA
from Manbir Singh Chowdhary
location: USA
Congratulations on the excellent work in organizing the first Sikh literary forum on the internet! Sikhspectrum.com serves as a great means of disseminating knowledge, destroying stereotypes and sharing different perspectives on a variety of contemporary issues.
Sikhspectrum.com further exemplifies that the pen can be mightier than the sword.
It is a good article that reflects a lot of hard work by the author. I understand that it could be sent to the president of France and and other
dignitaries at the United Nations. We must emphasize to the French
that a turban should not be treated as a religious symbol to avoid the present
situation.
Editor-- From our understanding there is no contradiction in being American and a Sikh. You may not agree with some of the policies of the American government, but that should not be an excuse to criticize a person who wants to hold public office. If you would like to present your views on why you detest everything American, please do send us your well-written reasons for publication.
That being said let us not forget that in the past one hundred years, Americans have made significant contribution toward human knowledge. Diseases that once crippled and killed humans, found cures through research conducted in American laboratories by American scientists, who occasionally indulged themselves in “junk food, while working on finding cures that helped hundreds of millions of people around the world.
Not all rich people are bad, and neither does poverty make saints out of people. You are welcome to send your views on wealth (or money) and the Sikh viewpoint. Since you have invoked the Khalsa spirit, let us, in the truest traditions of the Khalsa, not judge people without first giving them the opportunity to prove themselves. If they fail to deliver their promises, then you have the right to question them.
The Sikh gentleman displays the typical features and symptoms of a grossly
Americanised 'Sikh' (I believe the two things are a contradiction).
His appearance and his comments, manifest a desire to fit in and 'serve' a
'great nation' which represents the most materialistic, consumption crazy,
militaristically domineering, pollution and junk food 'nation' on the
globe. Moreover, the USA was constructed on the foundations of the
genocide of the First Nations, who are the real custodians and natural
citizens of Northern America.
This Sikh individual's success, is an example of how people become
consumed in the putrid arena of personal wealth and personal glory. As an
Indian, let his proceed to make an increasing Americanised fool of
himself; as he panders more and more to the 'American Dream'.
Editor-- It is true that traditionally Sikhs are cremated and not buried. The graves of Sikhs who died in the World Wars, thousands of miles away from home, is a reminder of the love and affection shown by Europeans for dead Sikh soldiers and their way of honoring them the way they would honor their own. You may also like to read detail accounts of the World Wars to get a better understanding of the conditions that were present at that time.
This is just a query. I thought it was forbidden for Sikhs to be buried or
to have a grave? It is good that there is a reminder of the Sikhs who
died in Europe, but should there be graves?
As a Sikh I am proud of S. Simranjit Singh Ji Mann for his daring speech in the
Indian Parliament facing dire consequences at the hands of anti Sikh forces and
most of all SGPC's representatives not voting unanimously for Sikh causes, perhaps we
have been sold out for money and personal gains which are temporary. Sikhs need a unified voice if we wish to safeguard the interest of our
future generations. Hopefully, we will set aside our differences over petty things,
and take our cause jointly for the betterment of the community, which is
going through very rough time. Sikhs should learn to send honest,
intelligent, and outspoken leaders like S.Simranjit Singh Mann to
the Parliament.
Editor-- We acknowledge that caste issues have surfaced in all communities in India including those that specifically reject it. We had also published a note that might interest you:
If you believe that the author is misinformed on this issue, please send us a detailed response and we will publish it and also pass it to the author.
With due respect I would like to register my criticism of this article. It
stinks of misinformation.
Sikhism is a great religion and Shri Guru Nanak wanted a panth, which was
devoid of all the misgivings of the brahmninical society.
Do you think panth is not divisive. Are marraiges not based on the caste
system.
It would do the panth a great favor if we channelize our energy towards
positivie thinking rather than Hindu bashing.
Thanks
Lack of knowledge leads to frustration and anger...
Editor-- Your comment on "lack of knowledge" although true is a general statement. Please be more specific so that SikhSpectrum.com readers can understand your viewpoint clearly.
The title of your response indicates that your consider Gurtej Singh an "ignorant individual", without giving any reasons for reaching such an extreme conclusion. You can send us a detailed rejoinder to this article, with facts, and we will publish it.
UNJUST STATE: A DISTORTED PERCEPTION BY AN IGNORANT INDIVIDUAL
Lack of knowledge leads to frustration and anger which often becomes a
misguided missile that only exacerbates the sufferings of common man.
Democracy is the panacea to cure all problems plaguing the society,
whether it is Sikhs or Nagas or Kashmiris.
Editor-- You are again passing judgement on the author, without providing us with reasons to justify your views. Please send us a detailed response with facts, and we will pass it to the author for her response to your rejoinder.
Sitting on your couch and commenting upon the sorry state of affairs is
what "People of Straw" are made of. I would quote a US president on that:
"Ask not what the country can do for you, ask what you can do for your
country"
Editor-- Your views suggest that you are justifying the massacre of innocent Muslims (and other minorities) in India. SikhSpectrum.com disagrees with you.
I would suggest you to read a slight piece of history. You could probably
read about the military exploits of Babur, Akbar, and Aurangazeb. You
would realize that millions of Hindus were mercilessly slaughtered in cold
blood by the so-called Islamic crusaders, for not accepting a degraded
religion and for fighting adharma. The fight underwent a temporary phase
of truce to concentrate on achieving freedom from British rule. It has
resumed since and will continue to its logical end. Jai Bajrang Bali !
I would like to suggest just one piece of advice...
Editor-- Thank you for the feedback. We will pass it to the author. You have not provided us with any reasons why you disagree with Baldev Singh. Please take a moment and clearly state the facts where you disagree with him. If you send us a detailed rejoinder we will publish it, and also pass it to the author for his comments.
I would like to suggest just one piece of advice to Mr. Baldev Singh. These
words are found on 12th stone edict of Ashoka.
"Whoever honours his own religion and disparages another man's,...does his
own religion the greatest harm”.
I have deep respect and admiration for...
-Baldev Singh, USA
Here is my brief response to Sandeep and Ashu's feedback on my articles.
I have deep respect and admiration for everyone – Prophets, Preceptors, leaders and ordinary people who advocate equality and justice for all, and the unity of mankind.
Although I don’t approve of Mahatma Budhha’s life-negating philosophy of asceticism, I venerate him for his stand against the tyranny of the dehumanizing caste ideology. He was first sage of the Indian subcontinent to preach against caste system, and love and compassion for all. The renowned poet and philosopher, Mohammad Iqbal paid tribute to Mahatama Buddha in one of his celebrated poem about Guru Nanak.
Here is my response to Sandeep's...
-Baldev Singh, USA
Here is my response to Sandeep's salutation of Jai Bajrang Bali.
Jai Bajrang Bali is a salutation to Sri Hanuman ji. Does Sandeep believe that there was such a thing as Sri Hanuman ji? If so, then does he believe that the man from the North, Sri Ram Chandar ji, son of King Dasrath, was at a higher state of human evolution than Sri Hanuman ji from the South, because one was human and the other monkey-like with a tail that could stretch and encircle the entire Island of Sri Lanka?
Moreover, according to Hindu scriptures, Hanuman ji was a precocious child. Thinking that "Sun" was some kind of a fruit, he swallowed it. What does Sandeep think about this?
Baldev Singh
European Sport Fencing in no way simulates real fighting...
European Sport Fencing in no way simulates real fighting. The statements
you have made in regards to "actual" swordsmanship could not have been
more wrong. The fact that you drew upon one of the most watered down
systems of "swordsmanship" on the planet as an example clearly
demonstrates this. Sport fencing is a game and nothing more.
In
addition, thrusts are not always shorter in distance and fast in speed
than cuts. Furthermore, a thrust, while more likely to be fatal than a
cut, derives its lethality from blood loss. This is why if you've studied
forensics and murders in the United States you would see that most victims
of stabbing are stabbed dozens of times. In fact, it is not unusual to
see thirty to forty stab wounds on a murder victim.
If you bothered to
read western history you would know that in smallsword and sometimes in
rapier duels the man would have to be run through two or three times
before he died. Why? Because while stab wounds are lethal they do not
have the shock value of a cut. If you cut someone's arm off he might
survive but he will certainly be out of the fight. If you stab someone in
the stomach he will die without surgery (something that didnt exist
hundreds of years ago in the way we know it today) but he will probably be
able to continue fighting. In regards to using sticks to practice
swordsmanship, it has been done for hundreds of years in many cultures.
The Japanese have their bokken, the Europeans have wasters, etc etc. In
Kendo (another sport) you are not awarded a point for merely touching your
opponent. You can only get a point by showing proper intent, making a
very clear strike, making your ki-ai (shout), and stomping your foot all
at the same time. Why? Because the simple fact of the matter is that it
DOES take alot of intent and force to cut with a sword. A sword is not a
razor blade and not even Japanese Katanas which are renowned for their
edge hardness and sharpness are as sharp as the razor used to shave.
If you had ever done any cutting practice in your life you would know that
it takes a lot of effort to make a proper cut. Without proper technique,
even a piece of cloth can serve as good protection against a cut. I have
to say that your article is filled with speculation and mythology and
cannot be considered credible in any way, shape, or form.
I just want say thank you for bringing together...
-Khushwant Singh
I just want say thank you for bringing together learned
people from diverse backgrounds on
SikhSpectrum.com.
I am interested in religious issues and human rights. I got
an MA in Social Anthropology from Heidelberg University, Germany
at the South Asia Institute. My MA thesis was on Sikh identity. Recently I was accepted by the London University for a Ph.D. on
child refugees in Germany, and I am presently working on a project on
Sikh Diaspora in Germany.
I plan to go to London in September. I look forward to
meeting learned people who combine faith with knowledge.
Kind regards,
Khushwant Singh
I think the crucial point in the whole debate is...
I just read your article, and I have to admit that it is one of the
few
attempts "to take a dispassionate look" at the issue (another exception
for example
is J.S. Grewal's book Contesting Traditions).
I think the crucial point in the whole debate is methodology,
sincerity and self-reflexivity. Hew McLeod can be easily and
convincingly criticised for his ethnocentric approach and his
failure to apply current "western" methodology - about
which he is so proud of - which already emerged in the late
70s. I think he, and other scholars too, should have a
close(er) look at debates in socials sciences, which raise important
questions concerning "representation of culture and history".
Also for
historians, the "Writing
Culture Debate" is just one example. McLeod and other scholars
neglected many crucial developments in social sciences like the
questing of 'objectivity' (G. Marcus & D. Cushman, J. Clifford) and the
need to focus on "Partial Truths", as James
Clifford puts it and on specific contexts. Little or no attention is
paid in
the debate to following points:
- Politics of Writing and Representation (J. Clifford, P. Rabinow; T.
Asad, S.
Tyler, P. Bourdieu)
- Aspects of "Othering" (J. Fabian)
- The role of power constellations (M. Foucault, E. W. Said, A. Nandy)
- The role of oriental scholars and their production of knowledge (which
McLeod obviously seems to be) (E. W. Said)
- The role of Oral Tradtion and Performance (Bauman &
Briggs, M. Nijhawan)
- The importance of emotions in scholarship (R. Rosaldo)
The sad thing is that many Sikh scholars failed to take up the issue
by arguments. Instead they concentrated on personal accusations
or they kept defending myths and historically questionable
writings.
I think both sides should try to take a close(r) look at debates,
which might be fruitful for a better understanding of Sikh
philosophy, history and Sikhs as human beings. I am aware of the fact that
there is no scholar on this planet who is gifted with so much intellect
that he is in the position to pay attention to all relevant aspects. But
at least we should try to approach issues from different perspectives.
PS: The answer of Hew McLeod to your article is disappointing because he
doesn’t clarify several open questions in terms of his publications, as
mentioned in your article.
Your story had very much touched my heart deep inside and I almost cried .
It is very sad what happened, but I guess and believe that the life is our
first school, which teaches us very difficult things. May God helps us all. I am
very suprised, how could you be so patient. Wow , it is amazing , seems
you have such a big loving heart. Please just forget the past and live
your life.
Editor-- If someone knows the lineage of Hazrat Mian Mir, please let us know.
Greetings,
This is an interesting web site. Our ancestor tree shows that Mian Mir is
the father of my great great grandfather. Would you please be kind to help
me contact the current custodian of the shrine (dargah) of Hazrat Mian Mir
Sahib in Lahore? This is very important for us. One more thing I want to
know, what is the ancestor tree of Hazrat Mian Mir Sahib?
I am a regular reader of the SikhSpectrum.It is a...
-Nikitha Chandran, India
from Nikitha Chandran
location: Kerala, India
Dear editor,
I am a regular reader of the SikhSpectrum. It is a very enlightening and
open magazine.
I have got to know a lot of people through this magazine. I had read the book
Higher Than Everest by Maj.H.P.S.Ahluwalia and was deeply moved and
impressed by the book. Since I have been trying to contact him, I would be
grateful for any help.
With regards,
Nikitha Chandran
Mandatory, universal preschool will only dumb down...
Mandatory, universal preschool will only dumb down any good options out
there. I for one never want the governments hands all over my child's
education any earlier than necessary. The government should not keep
uping its involvemnet in our lives. I will fight ANY universal preschool
that tries to make its way into our lives.
Thank you so much for the article. I wish you had...
Thank you so much for the article (which I just read). I wish you had
mentioned the fact that what was a genocide in 1984 continues to be
written as a riot - violating all English language dictionaries.
I am a senior journalist (and yes a Sikh too) working in India's troubled
northeastern part. I was a Special Correspondent with The Times of India
till October 2003 when I left that and started my own organization called
EASTERN PROJECTIONS.
I am now back to India and am happy to report that...
This is further to my email of March 25 regarding launch of the international campaign to promote faith in the power of Ardaas, need to generate donations for All India Pingalwara Charitable Society (Regd.), Amritsar and to request Sikhs and well wishers of Pingalwara all over the world to write to the Government of India to award Bharat Ratna posthumously to Bhagat Puran Singh Ji.
I am now back to India and am happy to report that the launch in London went off much beyond my expectations. Following were the highlights of the launch:
(a) On March 24, I reached London. On arrival, as per arrangements made by Bhai Harbans Lal, I was hosted by Sardar Harcharan Singh who was in the All India Sikh Students Federation with me in 1947. He took great pains to organise all my programmes in London.
(b) On March 25, I had detailed discussions with Sardar Ranjit Baxi, Dr. Dugal and Dr. Lamba of the World Punjabi Organisation about our future plan of action. Dr. Lamba, an upcoming doctor, is son-in-law of Sardar Tarlochan Singh, Chairman, National Commission for Minorities and son of my dear friend, Dr. Jagjit Singh.
(c) On March 26, Director Tourism, Government of India, Vivek Angra, organised a major reception which was attended by various travel agents, Air India officials, eminent residents of London and media. Air India's first Director UK, Manak Dalal, was also there. Multimedia on "Miracles of Ardaas" was shown, besides a talk on "Incredible India". This function was organised at the suggestion of Shri Jagmohan, Hon'ble Minister of Tourism and Culture, Government of India. The same day, I had a meeting with Lord Swaraj Paul who praised the publication of "Miracles of Ardaas" and offered his support.
(d) On March 27, I gave a talk at Gurdwara South Field, London. The President of the Gurdwara Committee has promised to send a draft to Pingalwara, Amritsar.
(e) Also on March 27, I visited the newly built majestic Gurdwara of South Hall, and gave a CD of the Multimedia on Ardaas for regular screening in the adjoining hall specially prepared for student shows. About 5,000 students of London will be visiting this in the next few days and will watch the screening. Sardar Harcharan Singh has kindly agreed to co-ordinate.
(f) During my stay in London, I was interviewed by:
(i) Desh Pradesh Weekly.
(ii) India Abroad
(iii) BBC's Asian Network
(iv) Panjab Radio
These exposures resulted in several quick responses, enquiring about the availability of book "Miracles of Ardaas" and how to send donations to Pingalwara. A couple of cheques were received within minutes of the live broadcast. There were requests for Pingalwara literature.
(g) On return to India, In consultation with Dr. Inderjit Kaur, President, All India Pingalwara Charitable Society (Retd), Amritsar, it has been decided to send 250 copies of the brochure on Pingalwara to London to Sardar Harcharan Singh at the following address:
I will be sending 50 books of "Miracles of Ardaas" to Sardar Harcharan Singh to enable him to raise donations from some 2,000 Gurdwaras in U.K. It has also been decided that those wishing to send donations should deposit a cheque/draft in favour of "All India Pingalwara Charitable Society (Retd), Amritsar" and deposit in the ICICI Bank London (Freephone 08081314151) for transfer to ICICI Bank Amritsar, giving Account No.006601012522. ICICI branches also exist in USA, Canada and Dubai.
Like Sardar Harcharan Singh in London I request volunteers from other stations to help in this noble cause.
Capt. M.S. Kohli
I saw my grandfather's name among the list of war dead...
I saw my grandfather's name (Risaldar Hardit Singh s/o Sardar Bahadur Ram
Singh) among the list of war dead on the Commonwealth war graves site. I
have a picture of him before his regiment (9th. Hodson Horse) left for
France in 1914. Would you be interested in having a copy of his picture
for you records?
It was the best article on...