Mohammad Shehzad

It would not be an exaggeration to say that Fouzia Saeed's Taboo has overshadowed Sorish Kashmiri's Oos bazaar mein --a well-known booklet on the profession of prostitution written decades ago. For Sa'adat Hassan Minto or Kashmiri, it was easier to write on prostitutes and pimps: the notorious Hudood Law had not been ordained, the society had not been Talibanised, and both Minto and Kashmiri were men.

Fouzia Saeed

Unlike Oos bazaar mein, however, Taboo is a serious research work, which has been included as an anthropology textbook in the syllabi of University of London and some American universities.

Fouzia Saeed, currently head of Actionaid-Pakistan, holds a doctorate in Education. In a recent interview with Political Economy, she urged the society to accept the fact that prostitutes are human beings. They are very much members of this society, who enjoy certain rights, which must not be denied to them.

Question: Why it is so that our society has labelled kathak dancers as kanjar and classical vocalist as mirasis?

Because of their association with these groups who have been in the performing arts for centuries. It is very convenient to give this job to a specific ethnic group and then label it that way. It was convenient for the society to divide them like that. You hear that Mughals were great patrons of art. But how many of their daughters were kathak dancers or vocalists? They had also attached a stigma to it. They were not beyond us.

Question: What is really the difference between a mirasi and a kanjar?

These are two different ethnic groups just like others eg barbers, butchers. Mirasis are musicians and kanjars are into performing arts and prostitution. They live side by side in Shahi Mohalla. Mirasis would never get into prostitution. They are there only to provide music.

Question: You stayed with your relatives in Lahore while conducting this research on Shahi Mohalla. Did they know about your activities and had any reservations?

They had no objection. It took me a while to explain to them what I was doing. I told them that it was a research study. I was interested in the subject. So, they accepted it. But they were very curious.

Question: What should be the social status of a prostitute, in your opinion?

They are very much members of this society-100%--like anybody else! They do enjoy certain rights. Unfortunately, they have to live in denial most of the time. They don't let people know what they do. It is a sort of deception. That's how they get their rights. But once they are vocal about their occupation, other than a client, they are very harassed.

Question: Could we abate prostitution by legalising it?

I can tell you the good and bad points of both, and the society will have to think about it. When you make it legal, it becomes de-criminalised. So, all the criminals attached to it (get a legal status). You see a lot of brothels in different countries. A lot of criminals hang around there. That becomes like a hub of pimps and criminals. If you make it legal, you can de-criminalise it and make the health and hygienic conditions better. But if you legalise it, then it is more encouraging also. It will happen more openly too.

Question: What is your personal suggestion to this effect?

We are really not at the stage where we could decide what could we do about it. We have not even understood the issue. We are far behind the stage where we could decide how could this problem be resolved. You can't solve a problem, unless you understand it.

My book suggests that we need to understand the problem. We could come up with 10,000 solutions and it is not going to make any difference. We are not standing at a place where we are looking at the problem eye to eye. If our eyes are closed, how could we suggest a solution?

Question: Who enjoys more freedom: a prostitute of Shahi Mohalla or a housewife in a remote village of Pakistan?

The woman of Shahi Mohalla is certainly more confident. She knows what she is doing. She has more self-esteem in one way. She is independent in the sense that she earns her own living. She takes a lot of pride in it.

Question: Do you think your gender has helped you in conducting this study?

It could have gone both ways. Some thought going to Shahi Mohalla being a woman was difficult because of more vulnerability and harassment. Reaching these women was itself a big problem. You have to go through several layers. Men could have been more comfortable talking to pimps and the management.

Question: Which task is more difficult: creative writing or research?

I don't know why the government allowed him to contest the election. There have been so many instances in which the candidates' disqualification was blinked at. Not only the government, but the people too will pay for such follies.

Question: But did you protest against it formally?

It is like comparing oranges and apples. Both are very different processes. But many people say they get a taste of literature whey they read Taboo.

Question: What is the contribution of Shahi Mohalla to society?

There is a huge amount of benefit this whole society takes from Shahi Mohalla. It is quite ungrateful not to acknowledge it. In terms of arts, Shahi Mohalla has produced the best artistes over the decades--best musicians, ustads , singers, dancers, actors, actresses, have come from this area. We would like to go to the cinema, enjoy a movie. We would like to buy cassettes, listen to music--that's ok. But we just don't want to look at the place, acknowledge its contribution and consider it part of this country and the people there as citizens of Pakistan.

No arts council or cultural institution in Pakistan has produced one percent of what Shahi Mohalla has produced since Pakistan's inception. So, they are owed a lot of acknowledgement, the lack of which has resulted in deterioration of Shahi Mohalla.

Question: What is your conclusion of Taboo?

The astonishment on `denial' that we give, considering the middle-class reaction--reactions from my friends, relatives, the government, etc. I started this research to learn about performing arts, the stigma with the performing arts and prostitutes. But I ended up learning a whole lot about myself--about the women like me who think they are very chaste, who think they are good women. I did not know I would write a book. Even when I had finished, I thought I would write a research report.

It took me a while to decide that I need to reach a wider audience. I wanted to share with other people what I had learned--especially with young women, who are understanding their being as a women, who have been brainwashed what is a `good' or `bad' woman. I feel they need to shatter the two capsules that have been prepared for them. I wanted them to have the courage to question that and not be enslaved by the concept of 'good' woman.

That is why I have said that being bad you are used and being good you are also abused. When the book was accepted for publication, I requested them to come up with a paperback edition as soon as possible because I wanted the students and young people to buy it who could not have afforded a hardbound edition.

Question: Could there be a Taboo-2?

I don't know. Many people have asked this. If this book initiates some sort of national debate on ourselves, our behaviour, gender issues, this whole group of community that we don't own, then yes.

Question: Is another research possible on Shahi Mohalla from a different perspective?

Not by me, but many other people! I hope this is just a start. But I can tell you that Taboo has been translated into Urdu. Fehmida Riaz is doing the translation. It will be out in early 2003. There is also a suggestion for its translation into Hindi.

Question: Are you still in touch with your Shahi Mohalla friends?

Yes. I visit them very much whenever I go to Lahore. If I don't I receive lots of complaints!

Question: What are the myths and realities about prostitution in Shahi Mohalla?

All the families who are there, who practice the art form also provide 'other' services. There are very few who are committed to singing and have made a name for themselves and have chosen to live there. But such families are known singers. Otherwise, most of them resort to prostitution.

But I must say that people have no idea how common prostitution has become in all parts of the city. It was during the old days when it used to be restricted to the red light area. But not anymore! Now you don't know on which bus stop, hotel, neighbourhood, there is a brothel!

Question: What methods of personal hygiene these prostitutes follow?

The mid-level prostitutes do have their own methods. But those who would be available for Rs20-30, don't practice such precautions. It opens one to a lot of risks. That's the reason that AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases are rising.

Question: How many of them practice safe sex?

None! Recently, different projects have started on AIDS and they have started talking about the use of condoms. They would feel threatened if such issues are raised. Because in their opinion, it is the question of their 'bread and butter'. And men have their own 'ego'. It is a matter of awareness too. But through projects, at least the message is going through now. No project was in operation when I was working on my research.

Question: Did you come to know of any case of incest in Shahi Mohalla?

Not very specifically. Because they very much discourage it as a rule--any contact within the family, not that any taboo kind of incest. They would get very upset if a woman was dancing with the same man of the family or even a cousin or the community people or a mirasi.

Question: Did you ever try to study prostitution in the West and compare it with the prostitution here?

I have not studied prostitution in the West but after I started my research here, I visited several countries in the West and East Asia, where prostitution is very common, and there is a big difference between South Asian tradition and those traditions. In South Asia, if you go into a red light area, you can't tell you are in a red light area. In the West, you will have these pornographic pictures, peep shows, etc. It is very different.

Here when you enter such area, you will find that these people are very civilised. They would welcome you, offer you tea. So, there is less vulgarity. The only thing I could relate to is the geisha tradition in Japan. It is similar to courtesan tradition. The women are taken into the house like a family. They are trained in music, theatre and dancing and they also provide sexual services. They also have clients who would come. They are also witty--very similar to courtesans.

Question: How did you manage to get information from the Shahi Mohalla inhabitants? They don't share their secrets with outsiders...

It is part of research--how good you are as a researcher. It is also part of the honesty of my query. It requires a lot of patience. You have to build rapport. You have to be persistent. You have to connect with them at a human level. I never thought of them as objects of study. Since day one, I related with them as people. Just like I was searching my own soul for things, I was searching their culture for things. I think it does pay off. They do connect with you as people. It is evident in my writing also that I was not greedy for information. It was a very genuine concern and desire for enquiry.

Question: What type of response did you get from people for Taboo?

I was expecting that I would upset a lot of people. But it did not happen, which is very fortunate. I still have to wait because my Urdu version is not out yet. The reason why I did not receive too many negative comments was because the book has been written in a manner that you actually go on a discovery journey. The reader goes with the author. Therefore, they don't get any shock. If I were sermonising and passing judgements then I might have offended people.

Question: Did you receive any threats from right-wing hard-liners?

Not threats, though I did receive nasty e-mails. But all the nicer comments and realisation that people had after reading the book, that number is a lot more than of those who say that I am an infidel!

Question: What will be your message to the young women of our society?

I really would like them to be very critical about their own role, to reflect on their role. I see so many intelligent young women. I just hope they don't close their eyes and take whatever is handed to them, as if this is what you are supposed to do in your life. I just hope they have the courage and insight to reflect on it, to assess it, to discover for themselves and then decide what they want to be and what they want to do in life.

Question: Amongst women activists, who is your ideal?

See them more as partners than ideals.

Copyright ©2002 Mohammad Shehzad & Political Economy, The News on Sunday. About the author